Question:
Hi guys - I'm in a terrible situation. My o/h and I are on the verge of splitting up. It's the last thing I want as I still love her to bits, and we also have two very small boys (one less than 6 months old). I've tried to talk sense to her in terms of going to councilling, but she's not interested in that so I think the relationship is pretty much doomed. She's just quit work after taking extended maternity leave after our 2nd, and what's more shes talking about moving down south with the children where her family all live (Sussex) - we live in Lancashire.
As such I seriously need to look into our finances and the welfare of the children. I know the first thing I should do is consult a lawyer which I will do.
Just wondering what I could be looking at here. Brief overview:
We have no debt
I have no savings at all.
My o/h has an inheritance from her dad of about 100k sitting in the bank.
O/h doesn't work now, and I earn about 20k a year.
Mortgage 80k
I pay the mortgage, council tax, all bills and all the nursery fees (and always have done)
I could buy her out of the marital home if it was split 50:50 and she has said that's fine BUT if things did get messy then could she claim more? I would want custody of the children, but she says she would want them. If I backed off, is there a way I could put a court order on her to prevent the boys from being too far from me (100 miles+) or could we get joint custody?
I'm also thinking the money in her bank account would make a huge difference in the eyes of the court in terms of her supporting herself + the money for her share of the marital home.
Whatever happens I would want anything to be as amicable as possible to prevent both of us being dragged through the courts, though I guess she'd be on legal aid so I'd just have to cave in to whatever her demands would be.
It seems so unfair as I believe I have been a lovely husband and a great father to the boys always putting the family first. I'm absolutely distraught at the possibility of not being able to regularly see the boys.
Answers:
I dont know what to say at the moment except I feel for you, and your kids ar e lucky to have a dad who cares so much for them. Mine dont have that luxury so I spose it was in a way easy to separate from their father. It sounds like you could have a completely debt-free (and mortgage free) existence, and i dont know the circumstances but the way your wife is behaving sounds a bit odd. She should not be making any big life changing decisions so soon after having a baby. I will post later when I have had a think. You have to tread carefully, and keep your cards close to your chest. Be prepared for whatever outcome there might be.
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Thanks Sarah. Just one thing yes we are debt free, but we do have a 80k mortgage which I pay for, tho the mortgage is in joint names
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Thanks Sarah. Just one thing yes we are debt free, but we do have a 80k mortgage which I pay for, tho the mortgage is in joint names
what i'm getting at is that it doesnt seem to make sense to me that she has 100k in the bank when it could be used to pay off your mortgage completely. I would suspect that shes suffering from potnatal depression but its probably not a good idea to say that to her. Is your health visitor supportive?
Answers:
Hi there - I have asked about depression, and she says she isn't at all, and has done the checklist test for it
The inheritance is very recent. We've always had separate accounts, and I've always paid all the bills. She's very much a saver and we've always had the view "what's yours is yours" she I wouldn't suggest she use that money for the mortgage - unless we were financially in trouble.
Answers:
Hi there - I have asked about depression, and she says she isn't at all, and has done the checklist test for it
The inheritance is very recent. We've always had separate accounts, and I've always paid all the bills. She's very much a saver and we've always had the view "what's yours is yours" she I wouldn't suggest she use that money for the mortgage - unless we were financially in trouble.
Every single couple I've met with the 'his' and 'hers' money has had problems within their marriage, often centred around financial problems. I'm sure there must be couples out there that do do seperate things happily but I personally have not come across them. If I'd come into an inheritance I would be saying to my hubby "what shall we do with this money" be it pay off house, holiday,save etc.
I'm sorry I have no suggestions for you, other than to suggest relate, but if your wife won't go I don't know what you can do.
I hope you manage to sort things out and I wish you all the best.
Answers:
[quote=Jelle]Hi there - I have asked about depression, and she says she isn't at all, and has done the checklist test for it QUOTE]
Jelle,
Just info really, the checklist is something your health visitor goes through with you - it is about 20 questions along the lines of do you feel able to cope with things less, more, same. Do you cry as much as you did, more less, etc. It is just a general trend indicator and it is easy enought to lie your way through it if you feel like it. You do it a few weeks after the baby is born and then again at the weaning meeting.
Even if she is not depressed - tired and emotional is not a good state to make decisions.
Good luck with everything.
Answers:
Jelle,
Really upsetting to hear your news.
Obviously don't know all the details and please don't take this then 'wrong' way but, is there a possibility that your o/h is maybe a bit 'depressed' what with the new baby and all? Me & o/h split and I'm convinced it was cause of her 'depression' but she point blank refused any councilling etc. In the 1st instance I would try for that.
From a guys perspective; don't agrue with her - you'll only loose and no-one will gain anything.
Leave the lawyers (and social work) out as long as possible.
Lawyers will only cost you tonnes of money and social work will/may (appear) to be biased against you.
Try and get a mutual friend, or a friend of a friend.
Go for the listening approach first.
I would suggest if you start talking about spitting the finances and custody of the kids then you may find that the opportunity to talk and resolve has passed before it's even been considered.
Plenty of time for agueing over money later.
Talk NOW but more importantly LISTEN.
You, sometimes, don't appreciate what you've got 'til you loose it!
Best of luck.
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I developed postnatal depression after dd was born but it sort of had a 'second wind' when my father in law died 5 months later.
I don't know exactly what your problems are but clearly the mrs thinks they are bad enough to leave. How frustrating for you if she will not communicate.
BTW why do they go to nursery if she does not work? Sorry if u think im nosey just ignore me!
Answers:
Hi Jelle, so sorry to read about your situation. I know you're probably bored reading this, but IMO the fact that your Mrs has bothered going through the PND checklist would suggest that it's also crossed her mind. Sorry to harp on if this is honestly not the case but sometimes it's really hard for someone to accept or admit they need help. Perhaps you can have a look on the quiet at the symptoms yourself and see if you recognise any of them in her behaviour.
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Im really sorry to hear your troubles, i hope you can work it out. One thing i would say, i know someone has said to leave solicitors as long as possible, but i think it would be worth one appointment to find out how you stand legally, you dont have to follow anything else up at the moment. The reason i say this, is if she is thinking of moving away, and things do get difficult, the court process does take a long time to set in motion, you would have to use the courts nearest to where the children are living, which, unless you move as well, will mean you having to travel for all court and welfare appointments, and once they have moved, and are settled, the courts will prob not want the children uprooted and moved again. A lot of soilicitors do not charge for the first appointment, and i think it would def be worth finding out what your options are, and exactly where you stand legally. I hope things are sorted for you soon.
Catherine
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Hi Jelle
Sorry to hear about your situation.
If the inheritance has been very recent..maybe she has been thinking of leaving for a while, but has not been financially able to do so Although your OH has a 6month old baby this does not mean she has depression or mental problems. Most post-natal depression is caused because the mother feels like they cant cope and are struggling, but if the children are at nursery and she is choosing not to go back to work after extended maternity leave, then I think she has thought about this alot.....just my opinion though, and could be totally wrong
Is it totally out of the blue this behavior? Has your relationship been struggling? Blah Blah Blah. You need to find out why she feels this way...communication is the way forward whether its good or bad...if you dont know...then how can you sort it out? Maybe she feels that you just dont give a monkeys. If your wife is a good mum and she puts the kids as priority, I find it difficult to believe that you would get sole custody, and that they would put a restriction on her moving away-normally this is more for when spouses move abroad with the kids IYKWIM.
No offence meant on the above posting
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I'm sorry but just because she has gone though the checklist means nothing, I lied to myself on that and on the ones the health visitor makes you take. My baby is 8mths old, I have had countless times when I wanted to get rid of OH. I really do think this could be the case, unless you had problems this bad that predates the pregnancy (not not rule out prenatal depression) I would urge her for the kids bnifit to seek help. She may not be wiling to do this incase a custody battle ensues, she may think that if she is "mentally ill" that it would go against her.
Just an idea
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How long has she lived away from her family roots? Has she settled where you are now, or has she always wanted to move closer to home? Now you have 2 children, no work committments for her and recent inheritance have you considered that she might want to be back closer to her own family which to her is now achievable and if she feels you want to stay put then that could be why she's suggesting separation?
No offence intended and sorry if way offmark it's just i live overseas so know how hard it is to not have the family/friends you grew up with not on your doorstep.
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You say that the inheritance is very recent and you have a 6 month old baby - your partner wants to move back to be nearer her family. She has just experienced 2 of the most stressful things that you can go through in a very short space of time and wants to add 2 more stressful things on to the list to compound it, ie a divorcee and house move.
I would say that your partner is grieving, depressed and that moving and a divorce won't help that.
Maybe she has identified an unhappiness but is grabbing the wrong thing.
Could you all move to be nearer her family the move will still be stressful for her, but she will have everyone near.
To lose a parent whilst you are young is devastating and sometimes other people don't understand .
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I am sorry to hear your news and hope that it doesn't turn out as bad as u may think.
I don't mean to probe but do let us know when the death occurred which resulted in the inheritance as if this was fairly recent and someone your wife was close to, could partly be the reason why your wife feels the way she does. Was the death sudden, did this person live in Sussex and, if so, could your wife have felt guilty at being so far away at such a sad time.
Sorry to ask so many questions.
As my last point re speaking to a solicitor. Solicitors specialise in certain areas of work and it would be preferable for you to seek a solicitor who is on the "Children's Panel" and specialises in family work. Unsure whether The Law Society website could give u more detailed information about solicitors in the area in which you live.
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having had 6 live children I know how fragile things can be.I left my exdh when baby was 5 mths and my present dh when baby was6 wks.Dh and I got back together when she was 3 and have now been married for 10 yrs+.
For the 3 births since marriage we made an agreement not to get divorced until the child was 2! Made me feel secure,not trapped because I had to stick to my side of the bargain and knew he couldnt leave me!
hugs and best wishes.You sound like a really caring dad.Is there a friernd orfamily member who can babysit whilst you talk?Or talk to her for you?
Keep showing your love but get advice too.Protect yourself and your children.
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Hi
Sorry to hear your news. My advice would be:
1. Explore all your options now before you agree to anyhting. You can often get free advice over the telephone if you have a legal service on your home insurance. Relate will see you as a single person. The Citizens Advice Bureau can offer some help and most solicitors will give you the first half hour consultation for free.
2. You will feel so much better when you have proper answers to the issues of how will the courts look at her inheritance? Can she move the children back to Sussex? How much maintenace would you need to pay if you split?
3. Hold off doing anything legal for as long as you can (unless it minimises your maintenance payments) becuase in time everyhting sorts itself out anyway and there is no point in spending thousands when in 2 years time you may be back together or happily involved with other people or happy by yourself !
Sorry to sound pragmatic - but this is what I would do/have done.
Sophistica
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Hi there,
Thanks for the replies. In answer to some of the questions:
why do they go to nursery if she does not work – only the oldest does. I pay for his nursery fees. She doesn’t want the youngest to go to nursery – he’s too young in her eyes and prefers to stay at home to look after him
I really do think this could be the case, unless you had problems this bad that predates the pregnancy (not not rule out prenatal depression) I would urge her for the kids bnifit to seek help – I have suggested but she is not interested and insists she is not
If the inheritance has been very recent..maybe she has been thinking of leaving for a while, but has not been financially able to do so - I’m now beginning to realize this may have been the case
Is it totally out of the blue this behavior? Has your relationship been struggling – our relationship has been struggling for some time. I’m trying to be the family man, not going out as often as before and doing everything I can to give my family as good a life as possible. That’s all I want. My wife just seems to want more, and is going out more regularly. I work hard all day and come home to spend some time with my family. That’s all I want
If your wife is a good mum and she puts the kids as priority, I find it difficult to believe that you would get sole custody – very difficult to say. She’s a good mum to one, not so the other who is a lot closer to me (the eldest). With her not spending time with us at night and more so now at the weekend I not sure what she is after to be honest
How long has she lived away from her family roots? Has she settled where you are now, or has she always wanted to move closer to home? Now you have 2 children, no work committments for her and recent inheritance have you considered that she might want to be back closer to her own family which to her is now achievable and if she feels you want to stay put then that could be why she's suggesting separation - no she’s been settled up here for some time now. Maybe her fathers recent death might have triggered this as her brother lives down south but that’s all. She’d have no friends down there compared to here.
You say that the inheritance is very recent and you have a 6 month old baby - your partner wants to move back to be nearer her family. She has just experienced 2 of the most stressful things that you can go through in a very short space of time and wants to add 2 more stressful things on to the list to compound it, ie a divorcee and house move - absolutely and we only moved house in the summer as well to compound matters (big mortgage redemption penalty and all!!!!!). As mentioned I really don’t know what she wants, but she is desparately unhappy at the moment, and I simply do not know what to say to her.
I would say that your partner is grieving, depressed and that moving and a divorce won't help that – I totally agree, but it’s her that’s mentioning these things…..
Maybe she has identified an unhappiness but is grabbing the wrong thing – it’s possible but if she doesn’t talk I don’t know what to do
Could you all move to be nearer her family the move will still be stressful for her, but she will have everyone near – I have a secure job which supports us all and we have recently moved house as well. It’s financially a terrible time to move
To lose a parent whilst you are young is devastating and sometimes other people don't understand - I was there the whole way through and incredibly supportive. I’ve seen it before and was emotionally involved as well. A terrible time.
I don't mean to probe but do let us know when the death occurred which resulted in the inheritance as if this was fairly recent and someone your wife was close to, could partly be the reason why your wife feels the way she does. Was the death sudden, did this person live in Sussex and, if so, could your wife have felt guilty at being so far away at such a sad time – no he lived close by, but I feel she didn’t spend enough time with him. The death was not sudden at all and had been coming for many months. It was a couple of months ago.
Is there a friernd orfamily member who can babysit whilst you talk?Or talk to her for you? – the thing that compounds matters is she doesn’t want anyone (including family and friends) to know we are having serious issues. Doesn’t help matters at all. She’d do mad if I told any of her friends. Not sure how she expects matters to improve if she’s not prepared to talk to me or her friends……
You will feel so much better when you have proper answers to the issues of how will the courts look at her inheritance? Can she move the children back to Sussex? How much maintenace would you need to pay if you split? - these are questions I need to know. The CSA website indicates I’d have to pay £240 a month. I guess that doesn’t include other sorts of maintenance like putting a roof over their heads etc. Something I’d find very hard to do if she moved to Sussex….. I need to understand how the inheritance effects things too – I wouldn’t want a penny but surely having a substantial amount of money in her bank account pre-split would affect how much I’d have to support her going forward. Also if she met someone else surely that would affect how much I’d have to pay as well wouldn’t it? All I’d want is custody of the boys though – at least I’d be able to offer them everything they’d ever want, provide a nice house and as love as they could possibly want… not something I believe she’d be able to offer without a job and just relying on my maintenance payments. I believe my oh is also in her eyes missing out on her single life (hence her going out so much nowadays) which wouldn’t look good in the courts eyes. She’s also made numerous comments about if I want the kids I can have them, then next day saying the opposite, as and when he mood swings…..
Thanks for listening
Answers:
Hi Jelle,
Having just read your problem. I was in a very similar situation a couple of years ago and won custody of eldest child. I do hope i am wrong BUT. your o/h's going out all the time rings alarm bells with me. My ex did this and you can guess the result.... You MUST and I mean MUST break down these barriers that have been built up and for everyones sake COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER. Iwish you all the luck in the world. Hang in there.