Question:
Hi,
A few weeks ago I managed to stop my PC from freezing up totally (no BSOD, just a total freeze) by replacing the graphics card on my PC (Athlon 1900+, 512Mb, XP Home SP2, NAV, Sygate/Spybot/Adaware, etc).
However, a couple of days ago, it did it again. A reset got me a few more minutes, and then the same thing again - eventually, the PC wouldn't even POST, let alone boot.
I have uprated the PSU to 500W, replaced the CPU heatsink/fan with an uprated one thinking that the graphics card couldn't have gone again, but no joy. In desperation, I have bought a cheapie graphics card (9200SE) and put that in. That worked for 2 hrs, before EXACTLY the same thing happened again. Speedfan was registering 54degC for the CPU when it happened this time, but these AMDs run hot, and I had been converting some digital photos which had got it up to 60deg earlier. (I know that is hot, but well inside the tolerance - officially). I also have a good case fan, there is no great build up of dust, and all the fans are running (and not blowing too warm)
I didn't have much hair before, but I am on the verge of tearing what remains out!
Please can anyone suggest anything else I can look at (apart from a new PC!)?
Many thanks in advance,
Regards,
White.
Answers:
Try running a series of tests on the memory and cpu. As you've changed most other parts, it could possibly be the cpu/memory/motherboard that is causing the problem. You can find tests such as Memtest86 online.
Then try running the bare minimum required for the system. Ie unplug everything that isn't needed.
Maybe set the BIOS settings to "safe" or "default" if you've changed them in any way.
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First things first, do things in a logical order:
1. Check to make sure your power cable is connected properly
2. Disconnect from the mains and open your PC, check to see all cables & cards are fitted securely, even a small variance can cause POST to fail
3. If still no joy, disconnect everything you don't need, insert only the minimum memory, your old graphics card & your HDD to see if it powers up.
4. If it then powers up, gradually add things until the problem occurs again, it may be the last thing you add that has caused the problem.
5. Replace the PSU with the old one just in case the new one is not regulated correctly and causing a surge
6. If you still get problems, PM me and I'll see what I can figure out for you.
BTW...how did you post here without your PC?
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My PC has been freezing - the problem seems to associated woth the USB mouse - if I unplug it count to 10 and re-attach it's OK for a while.
I think its related to a recent windows update - but I may be wrong
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I Agree with all that has been said in response. Those temps are way too hot in my opinion. Applying the right amount of heatsink compound and getting the right thickness of heatsink compound is an art in itself. Zinc oxide paste is not in the same league as the Artic Silver products. No offence intended towards the forum member zincoxide.
Today has been the hottest day of the year and vulnerable computers would have fallen over given a tough workout. To be of use the heatsink fan of the CPU must receive cool air from a fan or series of fans. If not it just re-heats the warm air like a fan assisted convection oven. The hot air should also be carried away by a fan or series of fans.
Watch out for leaking or bulging capcacitors on the motherboard and other cards in the system. There has been a plague of dodgy capacitors undermining the reliability of PC products.
J_B.
Edit.
Take the side of the case of and blow air in with a desktop fan. If it works reliably then it is a thermal problem.
Answers:
First things first, do things in a logical order:
6. If you still get problems, PM me and I'll see what I can figure out for you.
BTW...how did you post here without your PC?
Hi,
Thanks for your suggestions. I am posting this on an old laptop over our wireless network. It is my wife's old one, and I have kept it as it is worth practically nothing anyway!
I have checked the cables, re-seated memory, cards, and so on. Nothing else had changed for a while when the thing started freezing.
I had memory problems in the past, and then I was getting all sorts of different symptoms. I might give memtest a go again in a while.
I had replaced the PSU as I had already added significantly to the PC, and I thought that 250w was just stretching things a bit - this one is 500w and has *much* more powerful fans too - and I was just about to add a large hard drive.
I can see no obvious problems with the mobo, and hence I think it might be heat related in some way. The CPU is rated to 80deg, I believe, and I have had it running reliably at up to 65deg (according to speedfan). These freezes are happening at a much cooler temperature - after the CPU had been working hard and had cooled. The new heatsink/fan is a coolermaster, and I did remove traces of the old gunk before putting it in place, but I do confess I used the compound that came with the unit, not my tube of thermal grease (also coolermaster).
I'll investigate further, and if I may I will take you up on your PM offer, if I get no joy.
Right - off I go for memtest, and the fan out of the bedroom!
Anyone else any ideas - please let me know.
Many thanks,
White.
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Thanks for that pic - sure brightened up my day a little!
Regards,
White.
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You have my sympathies Whitefiver as a couple of us downthread have had similar problems in the last couple of days. I think it must be due to the sudden "heatwave" we're experiencing, although my own PC seems to be running fine through it <touchwood> but then I've got a couple of huge fans blowing in this room too
I found the only way to stop my son's PC overheating today was by leaving off the case side and sitting it more or less in the middle of the floor to ensure good airflow. It's been on most of the day and I've just gone to check it now and it's off again, but I'm assuming he turned it off before he went out as the monitor is also switched off
I'm wondering whether I should fit an extra case fan, and if so, what exactly should I be looking for, and is it simple to fit?
Answers:
You have my sympathies Whitefiver
I'm wondering whether I should fit an extra case fan, and if so, what exactly should I be looking for, and is it simple to fit?
Thanks Curry, why don't you google for Speedfan, which is some free software which reports certain temperatures in your PC (depending on its age, and so on). Also voltages, etc. etc.
Sorry, no expert about case fans, but surely to do any real good, you would need a hole to fit one in? Don't think the ones that go in a PCI slot would do much good. Make sure the PC isn't full of dust too.
Regards,
White.
Answers:
Thanks Curry, why don't you google for Speedfan, which is some free software which reports certain temperatures in your PC (depending on its age, and so on). Also voltages, etc. etc.
Sorry, no expert about case fans, but surely to do any real good, you would need a hole to fit one in? Don't think the ones that go in a PCI slot would do much good. Make sure the PC isn't full of dust too.
Regards,
White.
I was going to ask about these programmes as I've seen them mentioned a couple of times now, so thanks! I'm sure I used to have something installed on this PC at one point which used to give me these sort of readings but no idea what it was, and I've fitted a new HD since then so I don't have it anymore.
I was actually quite surprised at how clean my son's PC was inside, considering it's almost a year since I built it, and the only heavy dust build up was at the fan vent and in the base of the case which I've managed to eradicate fairly easily. All the components still look relatively clean, especially compared to my machine LOL!
The reason I'm thinking of the extra fan is because although the current problems are probably due to the sudden heatwave, his bedroom also houses the gas CH combi boiler (and the PC sits near it!) which is obviously going to be throwing out extra heat during the winter too once the heating is switched on. Due to lack of room at the moment it's a toss up whether it sits nearer to the boiler or a radiator
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LOL! Mr Skint, you sure do make me laugh with your posts
(and I wish I was where that bloke is right now!)
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By the way - memtest has completed one pass with no errors, and the PC has been running for 37 minutes so far. I'll leave it for a while, but I would be interested to see what the CPU temp is now. Obvioulsy, the graphics card is barely turning over (dos screen), so if it is related to the graphics in any way, duff AGP slot or associated gubbins on mobo, it should keep on going for ever now.....
Regards,
White
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Well, running memtest under DOS from a bootable floppy, my PC lasted 1 hr 13 mins before freezing totally. No repsonse to kboard, memtest frozen,and so on. The good news was that memtest completed 2 passes with no failures, so I guess the memory is OK.
Running DOS (white on blue) meant that the graphics card wasn't exactly being stretched either!
The Dell Outlet pages are beckoning, maybe. Anyway, maybe I'll strip everything bar the absolute basics (but I would have thought thayt running from a floppy was pretty basic - no drivers would have been loaded, for example!), and try again, but *not* tonight.
Any more advice - please?
Regards,
White.
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If memtest froze under DOS (even if it passed 2 phases) its your memory.
1hr is not long enough to run memtest succesfully. You should be looking at 10hrs+.
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@ Whitefiver, you seem pretty competent at putting PCs together and know your stuff. Have you checked the integrity of the North bridge heatsink ? This motherboard chip contains the memory controller for Athlon XP systems and previous processors. Sometimes they just put a useless double sided sticky pad to hold the heatsink on. I lapped my Northbridge flat to make better thermal contact with the heatsink. There are always memory timings to relax to gain stability.
J_B.(My tongue still hurts from those lapping days.)
PS I don't think memtest86 runs 'under dos', it is too compact and has a Linux type feel to it.
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@ Have you checked the integrity of the North bridge heatsink ? This motherboard chip contains the memory controller for Athlon XP systems and previous processors.
PS I don't think memtest86 runs 'under dos', it is too compact and has a Linux type feel to it.
Hi Joe,
The Northbridge has a fan as well as a small heatsink, and that is running sweetly, and is dust free - from what I can see, it would also be a PIG to remove, as the screws are covered in gunk.
Memtest - well, I did pick the windows/DOS floppy option, so I'm sorry, but I assumed it was a sort of DOS.
Thanks for your ideas,
Regards,
White.
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The fact that the Northbridge has a heatsink and fan makes me think that the manufacturers suspected heat would be a factor in normal operation. My Northbridge did not have a fan but it had some useless foam tape between the heatsink and a concave plastic chip coating. The heatsink itself was also warped. If your Northbridge heatsink appears cool it is probably because the heatsink is not in good thermal contact with it.
What FSB are you running your memory at ?
J_B.
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Ok so
On the sort of subject of heat my craptop is getting quite warm
and I cant find a decent cooling platform anyone know of any sites
at a reasonable price...
Cheers Peeps
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mr white do u really what to safe this pc ? maybe u should make one,. turning it on and testing it all the teim may lead to burning out another part maybe u should get some rounded IDE cables for better air flow in the tower,.. i think u should get another M/B and bult with the working parts in the old pc there no point in getting a bigger harddrive in a pc thats already got problems so based on that i think u should really try (seems like u could) built another,. then u'll have ur no so cheap GFX card in it and new case with 3 case fans on it ur rounded ide cables and temp read out,. also ur new bigharddrive
sorry if theres typos *points at time*