Question:
My computer keeps gleefully shutting itself down after 1.5 years of trouble free use. The opertaing system claims it has detected a FAT 32 problem requiring a disk scan. It gives a volume serial number of OD69-10EC, whatever that means. The scan disk never seems to find anything, but on and on it goes, randomnly shutting the computer down whenever the mood takes it. How do I prevent this from happening and why is it happening?
Answers:
open up a command prompt window by doing the following -
1.
if its 2000/Xp goto Start-run and type cmd,
or if its win 98 it should be labelled as ms dos or something in your start menu.
2
Type the following to enable check disk to run then next time you restart your system.
chkdsk c:/f
the c ids the letter of your main drive and the f specifies to fix any errors
you may get a message asking to run check disk next time windows restarts, jusy say yes.
Answers:
That will only a do a quick-type check of the harddrive. Instead type:-
chkdsk c: /f /r
the additional /r specifies that it will locate any bad areas and try and recover from them.
If it doesn't find any errors on the harddrive then the chances are you have a software/driver or even hardware problem that is preventing windows from shutting down properly. When this happens, windows then automatically checks the harddrive (but only a quick test and not the more indepth one indicated above).
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OK. Got the following message:
"Chkdsk cannot run because the volume is in use by another process. Chkdsk may run if this volume is dismounted first. ALL OPENED HANDLES TO THIS VOLUME WOULD THEN BE INVALID. Would you like to force a dismount on this volume? (Y/N)"
Sounds very intimidating!! What should I do?
I should mention that two pieces of software are now not running properly. The system shutdown today was manic whenever I used Dragon Preferred voice recognition software. I also had to uninstall Norton Security, which loads, but which cannot then update itself automatically. I tried rolling back XP to last week, when things were better, but no cigar. I should mention that it is difficult for XP to shut down correctly, you have to prompt it twice. This appears to have happened since loading Dragon some time ago. The laptop I am using to write this also has Dragon and XP, but does not have FAT 32 problems, although does struggle to shut down. The only major revision of the other computer with the problems was undertaken two months ago when my graphics card had to be replaced. Could this have been the problem?
Answers:
Definitely XP! Tried various Google searches and there is definitely a problem out there with FAT 32 and XP conflicts, but it all goes over my head!
Answers:
Definitely XP! Tried various Google searches and there is definitely a problem out there with FAT 32 and XP conflicts, but it all goes over my head!
I use FAT32 and WinXP and have no problems at all. FAT32 is actually faster than NTFS (Microsoft even admit this) but NTFS is more secure but at home unless you have files you don't want someone seeing then NTFS isn't important. Obviously computers at work would all be in NTFS.
Oh and yes you can convert back to FAT32 but it can only be done using software like Partition Magic as the Microsoft converter will not convert back again.
UPDATE: When I build computers most of the time I use FAT32 as it's little faster but I guess it's personal preferences.
But before deciding on something like converting to NTFS, the problem you describe sounds like (as posted in my first reply to this post) that it could just be something like drivers, or something having problems closing down when windows tries to shut them down.
To determine if the problem is software/driver issue just boot Windows into Safe Mode and wait a few minutes and then shut down windows normally without loading any software, etc. If windows is booted into safe mode, then only absolutely essential drivers, etc are loaded and none of the other stuff.
To boot into safe mode, turn your computer on and press the F8 key (and keep pressing every 2 seconds or so) until a menu shows up on the screen.
If the menu isn't displayed and the windows logo appears (ie it is now loading Windows) then you weren't guick enough. This can happen if you reset the computer as opposed to turning it off properly and then turning back on again, or alternatively pressing the reset key on your tower should be ok.
When the menu is displayed use the up/down arrow and highlight "Safe Mode" and press Enter twice.
Windows will now load with essential drivers only. The screen resolution will probably look different but this is normal.
In Safe Mode, you may find that certain things don't work or you may not be able to make some configuration changes but again this is normal.
Now whilst in safe mode, just leave the computer for a minute or so to load anything else in the background and then just shut the computer down the normal way - ensure it's turns the power off or a message is displayed to say its safe to turn off the computer.
Now when you next start the computer does the same message appear?
Answers:
If you read his earlier post he use's his PC for work so yes it should be NTFS and fat32 is just stone age.
My apologies I must have missed that but still he uses for work but he is (I assume) at home.
I believe that before converting to NTFS, he try and find out the cause of the problem as I've not of heard of anything that doesn't like FAT32 especially the newer type programmes as FAT32 can only be used on the older Win9x/ME anyhow. When a programme tries to save stuff it uses M$ API commands (the programme "asks" XP to save it, etc) therefore unless the programme was using its own commands to save and is relatively new software and designed for exclusive use of XP/2000, etc (ie can only be ran on NTFS).
I do believe that it is a software/driver issue causing windows not shut down properly and therefore XP automatically tries to check the disc for errors for lost fragments, etc.
The best method to determine this is to boot into safe mode (as indicated in my earlier post) and not run any other programmes but just leave it for a minute then shut down. Repeat this few times to be sure if he wants.
He also mentions that he has Dragon on his laptop and that doesn't have the same problems but is slow to shut down. A slow shut down can be caused by XP having problems shutting down a driver, etc.
Answers:
Dear Mr Skint,
Took a look at the MS page... Wow! I could implement the procedure, but could you explain in non-technical terms why converting FAT 32 to NTFS is the fix? What is a NTFS? Does anybody else out there agree with this fix? If I do this, how can I get back if it doesn't work? Sorry, have to ask that I need my main computer for work!!
Regards
JR
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You should really try to find the root of the problem before you start converting to NTFS. BTW, do you have any other OS on the same drive?
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No, no other OS on same drive.
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The requirement for a scandisk/chkdsk on boot up was caused by the system not shutting down in an ordered fashion. Try it shutting it down yourself before it falls over to prove it one way or the other.
There is a memory test thread which suggests using memtest86 and other free utilities to check for memory errors.
Find out your motherboard manufacturer and model number.There have been batches made with poor motherboard capacitors that overload the power supply and make the system unstable. CPU-Z will identify your motherboard for free.
J_B.
Answers:
Guys,
Thanks for all the advice. I cannot really do any of it until this evening, when I have finished work. In the meantime, would any of the following observations help? Up until recently, I was able to use Dragon quite happily. Now, if I try to use it in combination with Word, the computer automatically shuts down, complaining of a FAT 32 problem. As part of the boot up, it undertakes a disk scan, finds nothing wrong and off we go. If I again use Dragon/Word, down we go again! Dragon clearly uses a lot of memory, being a voice recognition software. Yesterday, I was told that my user identity on Dragon was using too large a vocabularly, so I had to create another user file, which quite happily used the large vocabularly option!! Except then the whole thing crashed...
I was also horrified this morning to find that all the "Sent" items in Outlook Express had simply disappeared as had all the deleted files in the Recycle Bin, although no other information has gone (I hope!)
I had once instance recently of Word having to delete a corrupted normal.dot file. If I leave a Word document open on the computer, go away for an hour and come back, the computer will have shut down, again because of FAT 32 problems.
Norton cannot live update, despite having been uninstalled and reloaded. I have a similar XP set up on my laptop (which has a slower processor), where Norton does everything you ask it to.
Answers:
Hmmm, do a drive fitness test first. All hard drive manufacturers usually supply this.
It doesn't sound like anything physically wrong with the drive though. It may be a controller or driver issue. Something isn't writing to the drive correctly. Updating your BIOS and drivers could help fix that.
Also, it could be a virus. You never know. Worth running a scan just incase. It does sound like something fail to write to the disk though. You mentioned leaving Word on and coming back and it'd be off. Word autosaves every so often which probably caused the problem.
If none of the above works, then yeah, try converting to NTFS. It's an option worth trying. Also, note FAT32 isn't necessarily faster than NTFS, although usually that is the case. FAT32 can access files faster, but NTFS reduces the number of disk accesses and time needed to find a file.
Answers:
You say it shuts down complaining of FAT32 problem! What exactly is the error and is before XP shuts itself down or is it just when it starts up again?
If it complains of FAT32 problems before XP is shut down then thats a different matter but if its only when it starts up and then proceeds to check the disk then it's because Windows wasn't shut down properly possibly because it was having problems unloading a driver/software.
Another problem could be the Pagefile needs clearing/deleting as I have read on an M$ article that every now and again pagefile gets corrupt. The pagefile is used by FAT32 and NTFS. Do you know how to delete the pagefile?
Also Mr Stint, I agree FAT32 is stone age but I've been using computers since the days of MSDOS (well before Windows was even thought of) so that's probably why I prefer FAT32 besides the obvious fact that it is faster than NTFS.
One last thing the only problem (it's actually its only major limitation) with FAT32 is that no one file can be bigger than 4GB. Now 4GB is a very, very, large file and I've yet to come across one file that large with the exception of video capturing from a camcorder or other source as if they capture in .avi format those files can be really big but then I get an error saying that it can't save the file as its bigger than 4GB.
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bbb_
How do I go about deleting pagefile? Please talk me through this. Will it recreate itself during a reboot? Is it necessary for the running of the computer?
Answers:
I'd go with NTFS in you can convert the file system. Reasons being:
- It's more efficient in terms of space usage.
- FAT32 isn't always faster. It is faster on smaller volumes (generally less than 20gb), whereas you'll find NTFS is generally faster on larger volumes. As I said before FAT32 can access files more quickly, but it isn't as fast searching through files when compared with NTFS due to the way files are indexed.
- NTFS is much more recoverable as it keeps track of changes made to the file system. This means it can effectively roll back any changes you made. FAT32 just uses pointers.
- Greater security.
- It is prone to defragmenting, but less so than FAT32
The only time I would consider FAT32 would be:
- A dual boot system, such as Linux. It's a pain not only mouting, but writing to an NTFS drive (I use Fedora).
Answers:
FAT32 isn't always faster. It is faster on smaller volumes (generally less than 20gb), whereas you'll find NTFS is generally faster on larger volumes.
I have a 160GB SATA drive (partioned as 100GB FAT32, the other 60 as NTFS). My main drive (WinXP runs from) is the 100GB. I gave it a go and converted to NTFS and found that it was slower and I had great problems deframenting it as it would never properly do it. I therefore moved back to FAT32. I use diskeeper to defrag my drives and found it does a better job of FAT32 than it does of my other (60GB) NTFS drive.
NTFS is much more recoverable as it keeps track of changes made to the file system. This means it can effectively roll back any changes you made. FAT32 just uses pointers.
True, but if the computer goes belly-up (is that even a proper word?), I can by booting into DOS access my FAT32 drive to copy over important/personal files to floppy or something. It isn't possible to do this on an NTFS system unless using a NTFS driver type thing to access it via DOS.
I personally can't see FAT32 being the problem as described by Jolly_Roger as apart from the fact he's been using it for over year without incident and only recently as this problem began. It does point to the fact that a driver/software isn't properly unloaded by XP during its shutdown stage and upon rebooting, XP realises there was a problem and checks the disk for lost fragments*. The only time I can see FAT32 being the problem is if when he uses Dragon it is trying to save to a file that is greater than 4GB (the limit of FAT32).
* WinXP only ever does a quick check of the disc (especially during boot-up) unless specifically asked to do a full scan by us before hand.
At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference. I personally, find FAT32 is faster and I know should something happen where windows refuses to load at all, I can easily get at my personal files.
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True, but if the computer goes belly-up (is that even a proper word?), I can by booting into DOS access my FAT32 drive to copy over important/personal files to floppy or something. It isn't possible to do this on an NTFS system unless using a NTFS driver type thing to access it via DOS.
Try Knoppix. A live version of Linux (runs from cd). Brilliant if you want to recover files (even NTFS but you have to manually mount the drives), and can still do so using an operating system. Agreed though, NTFS is harder to work with in such situations.
Everyone is entitled to their own preference. I agree though, I don't think it's something to do with the file system. I purely suggested it as an option as it's what Microsoft advise you to use, and is the native file system of Windows XP.
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I still where possible use the old shortcut commands for everything even those from the days of WordPerfect where the likes of Ctrl P came from. Word just copied it.